Thank you for replying, Workflow seems to answer a lot of my questions except one or two. do you know if its possible to add a role to the user as soon the roles module expires? for example the subscribed user expires and looses their subscribed role through the roles module is it possible to add a role at the same time as removing one during the expiration?

The only way I can figure out to do this in workflow is to add the role after the user has logged off and back in, but this way seems a bit problematic since it will most probably confuse the user